#156. Proverbs 30:4…Declared to be the Son of G-d…John 3:13, Romans 1:2-4, 10:6-9, 2 Peter 1:179/9/2016 Let's start with the four claimed "proofs" from the Christian bible:
Let's take each one by one.
Note, too, that John 3:13 does not declare Jesus to be the son of G-d, instead he is called the son of man. The term the Son of man is used to refer to Jesus 32 times in Matthew, The term the Son of man is in Mark 15 times, The term the Son of man is in Luke 26 times. The term the Son of man is in John 12 times. In the first three gospels the title is always recorded as having been used by Jesus of himself and never by angel, by man, or by demon. "Just" Jesus as the "son of man." Yet G-d warns you that the "son of man" has no salvation. "Don’t rely on ‘princes’ or on that ‘son of man’ —he has no ‘salvation’! When his spirit departs he will turn back into his dust; on that very day all his schemes will be destroyed!” (T'hillim / Psalm 146:3-4). The second claimed "fulfillment" is "G-d promised this good news about his Son ahead of time through his prophets in the holy scriptures. His Son was descended from David. 4 He was publicly identified as G-d’s Son with power through his resurrection from the dead, which was based on the Spirit of holiness. This Son is Jesus. . ." Romans 1:2-4.
Consider the 3rd claimed fulfillment verse: "But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’”(that is, to bring (Jesus) down) “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”(that is, to bring (Jesus) up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that G-d raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:6-9. The list maker seems to tie this one to because of the line ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’”(that is, to bring (Jesus) down) “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” The first part of the sentence seems to be lifted from Mishlei / Proverbs 30:4 which says "Who ascended to heaven and descended?" Ask yourself, who 1000 years before Jesus, could have answered that question with the name "Jesus"? This is a QUESTION being asked by the author -- so the respondent must be able to answer with a name known 3000 years ago -- long before Jesus. There are actually two possible answers found in the T'nach: Moses or Elijah. See Sh'mot / Exodus 19:3 and M'lachim Beit 2:11 / 2 Kings 2:11. The remainder of Romans 10:6-9 is a distortion of D'varim / Deuteronomy 30. Paul writes "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” However Paul conveniently omits "For this commandment which I command you this day, is not concealed from you, nor is it far away. It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who will go up to heaven for us and fetch it for us, to tell [it] to us, so that we can fulfill it?" Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, "Who will cross to the other side of the sea for us and fetch it for us, to tell [it] to us, so that we can fulfill it? Rather,[this] thing is very close to you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can fulfill it. Behold, I have set before you today life and good, and death and evil, inasmuch as I command you this day to love the L-rd, your G-d, to walk in His ways, and to observe His commandments, His statutes, and His ordinances, so that you will live and increase, and the L-rd, your G-d, will bless you in the land to which you are coming to take possession of it." D'varim / Deuteronomy 30:11-16. In other words you don't need to believe in Jesus -- you can fulfill the mitzvot of the Torah. Paul says it is too hard to keep the mitzvot, but G-d disagrees. G-d says it is NOT too hard -- read D'varim / Deuteronomy 30:11-16. again! Romans 10:6-9 is proof texting at its finest: using parts of a passage while ignoring the context and the entire point of the passage! Paul reverses the meaning of the passage -- and it is NOT a prophecy about Jesus, let alone Jesus being the son of G-d. . . The fourth claimed fulfillment verse says: "He received honor and glory from God the Father when a voice came to him from the magnificent glory, saying, “This is my dearly loved Son, with whom I am well-pleased.” 2 Peter 1:17. There are four places in the Christian bible which tell us about this voice from heaven proclaiming Jesus to be G-d's much beloved son -- and each one conflicts with the next. Mark and Luke’s accounts differ from Matthew’s version. In Mark and Luke G-d is speaking directly to Jesus. In Matthew G-d is speaking to other people. In 2 Peter it is hard to tell -- because Peter says "we witnessed his majesty" -- but then he says that the voice "came to him (Jesus)". So who knows? Did this voice speak to Jesus alone, or did the voice speak to those with Jesus? Read them for yourself:
King David, author of the psalm, in lines 6 and 7 has G-d speaking to the kings who are fighting him (David), saying "But I have enthroned My king on Zion, My holy mount. I will tell of the decree; The L-rd said to me (King David), "You are My son; this day have I begotten you." T'hillim / Psalm 2:6-7. Want proof that this is about King David and the kings who are fighting him? Read more of it in context: "Why have nations gathered and [why do] kingdoms think vain things? Kings of a land stand up, and nobles take counsel together against the L-rd and against His anointed (messiah)? "Let us break their bands and cast off their cords from us." He Who dwells in Heaven laughs; the L-rd mocks them. Then He speaks to them in His wrath; and He frightens them with His sore displeasure. "But I have enthroned My king on Zion, My holy mount. I will tell of the decree; The L-rd said to me, "You are My son; this day have I begotten you." T'hillim / Psalm 2:1-7. Which takes us to the claimed passage that all of these "proofs" purport to fulfill -- Mishlei / Proverbs 30:4. Remember that Mishlei / Proverbs are words of wisdom from King Solomon. Mishlei / Proverbs 30 starts with "The words of Agur, the בִּן / bin / knowledge (son) of Yakeh, the prophecy; the words of the man concerning, "G-d is with me; yea, G-d is with me, and I will be able." Most translations say Agur, son of Yakeh, but the word translated as "son of" is not "son of" at all. Every time in the T'nach that the word 'ben' (son of) appears there are 3 dots (segol) in the letter בֵּ / 'bet'. In However, in Mishlei / Proverbs 30:1 the letter בִּ / bet only has one dot - בִּן / bin (chirik). This changes the word from "son of" (ben) to "knowledge" (bin). The word translated as "son of" in Mishlei / Proverbs 30:1 is really בִּן / bin / knowledge. So who is Agur -- and what does this first line mean? אָגוּר / Agur means a gatherer. This person is one who gathers knowledge. Rashi, the famous 12th century Torah commentary wrote: "The words of Agur, the son of Yakeh: אגור בן יקה, the words of Solomon, who gathered (אגר) understanding (בינה) and vomited it (והקיאה)." Solomon was a gatherer of knowledge, or wisdom -- he wrote מִשְׁלֵי /Mishlei / Proverbs, שִׁיר הַשִּׁירִים / Shir Hashirim - Song of Songs, and קֹהֶלֶת / Kohelet / Ecclesiastes. Read the words at the end of line 1: ""G-d is with me; yea, G-d is with me, and I will be able." -- how vain of Solomon to think that he would be able to withstand the temptations of having too much of earthly goods from money to women. As Rashi opined "Solomon) relied on his wisdom to increase gold, horses and wives, which he was forbidden to increase, and so he said, ” G-d is with me, and I will be able. I will increase wives, and they will not turn my heart away; I will increase gold, and I will not turn away; I will increase horses, and I will not take the people back to Egypt." Yet Solomon did not withstand the temptations. His arrogance (akin to the Greek tragic hero who has one fatal flaw) was his undoing and cost his heirs a united Israel. Solomon literally vomited on his knowledge, and thus the first line of Mishlei / Proverbs 30. He depended on his own wisdom, rather than relying on the wisdom of G-d as found in Torah. Solomon thought he was beyond the mitzvot in the Torah which warns against Kings having too many horses, too many wives -- he thought they did not apply to him. And he fell. The author of the proverb tells us "For I am more boorish than any man, neither do I have man's understanding. Neither have I learned wisdom, nor do I know the knowledge of the holy ones." Mishlei / Proverbs 30:2-3. Having now set the scene we can move on to line four in context. The author Agur / Solomon is saying "I understand many things, but still I'm ignorant" and then he gives rhetorical questions that wise men should know the answers for. The point of this proverb is to follow Torah and do not try to find ways to "get around" the mitzvot, thinking you are smart enough, rich enough, etc. that the mitzvot do not apply to you. This was the error of Solomon, as this entire chapter details. Line 4 is a minor part of this proverb, but there is a reason the missionaries focus on only this one line. Mishlei / Proverbs 30:4 asks "Who ascended to heaven and descended? Who gathered wind in his fists? Who wrapped the waters in a garment? Who established all the ends of the earth? What is his name and what is the name of his son, if you know?" The list maker (and other missionaries) grab on to "what is the name of his son" as a prophecy of Jesus. Since these are questions that Solomon can answer, and since Solomon lived about 1000 years before Jesus, how could Solomon have said the name of the son was "Jesus"? Ergo that explanation does not make sense. Let's take each line of Mishlei / Proverbs 30:4, remembering that the answers had to have been known 3000 years ago. The author of the passage is asking the question to a person alive AT THE TIME. The answers had to be known, and so quite logically "Jesus" is the wrong answer since no one alive 3000 years ago would have given his name as an answer. The first question asks:
The second question asks:
The third question:
The fourth:
The fifth:
Key to understanding Mishlei / Proverbs 30 is to ask "who is speaking, when did he live and if he knows the answers to the questions in Mishlei / Proverbs 30:4 how could it be Jesus who did not live for over 1000 more years?" The only way to say the son in this passage is Jesus is simply by "saying so." After all the T'nach tells us that Israel is G-d's firstborn son, and it also names others (including Solomon himself) as G-d's son. The Christian bible often references quotes from the T'nach as "proofs" -- but they are force fitting square pegs into round holes (similar to the misuse of Hoshea / Hosea 11:1 which clearly says that Israel is the one who came out of Egypt, yet the Christian bible uses it as a "prophecy" about Jesus (Matthew 2:15). The author of this proverb would never had said "the name of G-d's son is Jesus" 3000 years ago -- hence this is not about Jesus, it is just more retrofitting (looking in the rearview mirror) by missionaries hunting for "proofs" which simply do not exist.
1 Comment
Gregory Feguer
9/20/2016 01:53:51 am
I read this article to convince me. I really appreciate to get the knowledge how the perspectives were viewed. I will reread again not just once read but help me to light my thoughts. Whoever wrote this #156, I thank to him/her. Shalom
Reply
Your comment will be posted after it is approved.
Leave a Reply. |
Photos used under Creative Commons from dionhinchcliffe, paulasenciogonzalez, paulasenciogonzalez, amy32080, petersbar, Aaron Stokes, amboo who?, Damian Gadal, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service - Midwest Region, SharonaGott, Udo Schröter, paulasenciogonzalez, Joybot, zeevveez, ianmunroe, freeqstyler, quinn.anya, Ivy Nichols, Groman123, UnknownNet Photography, torbakhopper, “Caveman Chuck” Coker, CarbonNYC [in SF!], dgoomany, Lion Multimedia Production U.S.A., oldandsolo, dbeck03